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different experience than Ashland.

Question:

What is your impression about the way block

people and goy people ore treated in prisons?

Ortez: Literally, when you talk about the way black

people and gay people are treated, there isn't much

difference. The only difference is that some of the black

brothers would be so uptight because they couldn't get to

the guards who were the ones really fucking them over and

would pick on the gay people- but they are really both the

same. There is no humanity for the prisoner, an animal whc

should be locked up. At any moment all these magnificent

rights like going to a movie once a week or going out to the

yard can be taken away for anything- and by that I don't

mean a concrete act. The guard just might not feel good

that day. Then there is also that brutality thing; when the

guards actually do come in drunk, d1sgusted or whatever

and they would pick on a black or gay person. They would

beat them up and call the goon squad and the goon squad is

known beautifully for

not

leaving any scars upon the body.

At joliet State Prison, gay people are segregated and the

197.2:

goon squad takes pleasure with them ... in other words,

rapes them.

When I was in the hole for the June 28th

thin~,

the

warden came down to see me. He told me he would

refuse to see a group of prisoners no matter who they were.

When I asked him why, he said: 'Well, we cannot respond

to rebellious prisoners.' And then I asked him, with guards

outnumbered by the prisoners, whether or not psychologi–

cally one of their games was to keep the prisoners from

rioting by playing off one' group against another. This is

why

we

thought they were discriminating against gay people.

It was the guard's duty to sit there and make sure the

prisoners overheard them calling us fags and queers and

stuff like that. It was the guard's duty to spread anything

bad they heard about any of us so it got around to the

whole prison population. This was their duty.

I don't know ... maybe it's because I'm black and gay,

but I don't think there is very much difference between

the way gays are treated and the way blacks are

treated ... except like I said : Gays get mistreated by

everyone.

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